Joseph Goldstein is a cofounder of the Insight Meditation Society and the Barre Center for Buddhist Studies, both in Barre, Massachusetts. He is the author of many books including, most recently, Dreamscapes of the Mind.
Sam Harris is a neuroscientist, author, podcaster and the proprietor of the Waking Up app.
This episode is the first installment of a new series on the Eightfold Path. The rest of the series is available on Waking Up, a top-notch meditation app with amazing teachers and a ton of courses for all levels. If you subscribe via this link: wakingup.com/tenpercent, you’ll get a 30-day free trial—and you’ll be supporting the 10% Happier team, too. Full and partial scholarships are available.
Episode cheatsheet
The big takeaway
Two renowned meditation teachers, Joseph Goldstein and Sam Harris, swap insights and debate the practical benefits of two major meditation traditions: Vipassana and Dzogchen. Host Dan Harris moderates as they explore whether non-dual awareness—seeing no separation between the observer and the observed—is best cultivated gradually or accessed directly, and why it matters for anyone aiming to suffer less and live more freely.
How to get out of your head – mindfulness vs. non-duality: Key takeaways
Two paths, one goal: Vipassana (mindfulness) offers a gradual, dualistic path to insight, while Dzogchen aims to point straight to the mind’s open, selfless nature.
Why non-duality matters: Realizing that there’s no “I” separate from experience helps dissolve the hold emotions and impulses have over us, making them far less afflictive.
Clinging is the real culprit: Both traditions agree the main source of suffering is the habit of clinging—to thoughts, feelings, or a sense of self—and that letting go is the path to freedom.
“Passive voice” hack: Adopting a subtle language shift—describing experience in the passive voice (e.g., “sounds being known” instead of “I hear a sound”)—can powerfully reveal non-duality in everyday life.
6 practical tips for applying meditation and non-dual awareness in daily life:
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